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Sublime Text 3 Beta

Re: Sublime Text 3 Beta

Postby meno on Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:47 am

i am really disappointed too. ST2 was released july 2012. it does not matter how long the beta was as it was a BETA. we did not pay for the beta, we did pay for a working product and continious updates. ST3 features nothing that justifies being a major version that needs to be payed for.

by the way. to value of ST2 did drop a lot when announcing ST3. All new plugins and extensions etc will need to be ST3 compatible which might cause ST2 to have a limited set of plugins etc.
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Re: Sublime Text 3 Beta

Postby gstimpy on Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:40 pm

I am not sure where all of you guys got the assumption that you were buying a support contract with your purchase price.

The EULA clearly statues: "NO WARRANTIES: SUBLIME HQ PTY LTD expressly disclaims any warranty for SUBLIME TEXT, which is provided 'as is' without any express or implied warranty of any kind, including but not limited to any warranties of merchantability, non-infringement, or fitness of a particular purpose."

That seems pretty clear to me. You are buying the present value of the software, not the future value.
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Re: Sublime Text 3 Beta

Postby adzenith on Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:25 pm

hansifer wrote:IMO it could be even smarter, though, by assuming whole-word matching if the current selection is a selected word... just seems to make more sense and additionally avoids the highlighted vs. matched confusion. The editor is just so brilliant in so many ways that perhaps this makes me overly critical when things fall short of perfection.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.
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Re: Sublime Text 3 Beta

Postby FichteFoll on Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:59 pm

meno wrote:ST3 features nothing that justifies being a major version that needs to be payed for.

Read this idea:
wbond wrote:I am committed to porting all of my stuff to ST3. Moving to Python 3 and bundling a consistent version of Python for each OS is a big step forward. There were so many things I have had to monkey patch for urllib2, ftp, etc. It is my opinion the only clear way to do with was make a new major version.

It would be a total nightmare to have a ST2 release update from Python 2 to Python 3. Everything would break for everyone. The idea of letting a user choose Python 2 or 3 would likely be a giant support headache (if even practically possible) that would prevent Jon from continuing to evolve the editor that we all find so useful. Not only that, but it would make it that much more confusing for developers to write plugins.

It actually does make sense to separate Python 3 and Python 2 plugins with a major version jumps, see also http://semver.org/. I won't comment on the price increase and the payed upgrade though.

meno wrote:by the way. to value of ST2 did drop a lot when announcing ST3. All new plugins and extensions etc will need to be ST3 compatible which might cause ST2 to have a limited set of plugins etc.

Agreed. And if your plugin is not able to support both ST2 and ST3 with the same code it makes implementing new features a pain because you need to add it to both branches.
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Re: Sublime Text 3 Beta

Postby facelessuser on Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:48 pm

FichteFoll wrote:Agreed. And if your plugin is not able to support both ST2 and ST3 with the same code it makes implementing new features a pain because you need to add it to both branches.

I for one don't plan on supporting ST2 and ST3. I plan on leaving a stable ST2 branch for old plugins and only continuing support for ST3 moving forward. Though I may allow others to backport stuff to the ST2 branch, I personally will not be. I don't think it is reasonable to expect developers who are doing plugins for free to keep back porting and and adding new features to old branches forever, not to mention constantly ensuring that a plugin runs well on ST2, ST3, ST4, STX, etc. Some may want to, but I do not. ST2 has a wealth of packages, and so it will not be hurting. All new plugins I may or may not develop, are going to be only ST3 compatible moving forward. I don't have time for multiple versions of an editor, I develop for what I am currently using.
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ST3 and plugins

Postby lewisl on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:02 pm

I suppose Sublime Pty doesn't need to take any responsibility for plugins.

I suppose no plugin developer needs to support any specific version of the editor.

There is an asymmetry here. Sublime is paid software. Sublime depends on plugins for critical, missing functionality (your mileage may vary on what is critical or missing). When Sublime does a new version, plugins may break. In the current ST2 to ST3 transition, some of the breakage is due to trivial but annoying differences between Python 2 and 3 (e.g., all print statements break). But, here is the asymmetry: the plugin authors are not paid and their work is open source. Either Sublime Pty takes responsibility for plugins or shares revenue so that plugin developers participate in the revenue they support. If not, users and the plugin developer community will abandon Sublime. It's a nice editor, but we can get our work done with other editors with some level of dissatisfaction, but we'd find a way.

Some practical alternatives here:
- Sublime Pty shares revenue with certain plugin authors.
- Sublime Pty becomes a contributor to key plugin efforts and fixes many bugs that are Sublime Text infrastructure related (eg, the enabling API for plugins, not the specific functionality of various plugins)
- Sublime Pty "buys" (not clear what the price should be) certain plugins and takes full responsibility for them, thereafter.
- Sublime Pty sponsors a virtual "conference" to discuss the issues with any plugin developers willing to participate. Goal: devise a plan for upgrading plugins for ST3 with some ideas for future support

With ST2, I tried a lot of plugins that seemed pretty nice. But, with so many broken in ST3 I decided to back off and see what really mattered:
- Package Manager: really essential. works w/ ST3 but very confusing to see what is going on with the 2 different ways plugins can now be packaged. Needs to be fixed and agreed upon by Sublime Pty and Will Bond (who really deserves a some ST revenue. Without the package manager there would be no real ST plugin community. It is a requirement.)
- BracketHighlighter: works w/ ST3; nice improvements over the built in bracket highlighting
- SublimeLinter: currently broken; I consider this essential. I think the developer is a bit miffed by the complaints, but legitimately has to work his paid job.
- SSH: would like to have, but it's not essential. While it's a pain to manage local/server syncing with other utilities, there are plenty of ways to do it.
- Git: seems superficially appealing to make it "integrated" but unless that integration is REALLY thorough it is just dangerous to use something incomplete. One of Git Bash, Git Gui, or Tortoise will do the job outside of Sublime. You can even use git.exe via a Windows command shell. There are many clients for OS/x. It is safer to really learn the critical git commands and use them yourself. Unless a project becomes a mess that needs rebasing and other cleaning up, it's a very small repertoire of commands. Conclude: live without a Git plugin.
- indent and other source code formatting: can live without
- Python shell beyond the console: would be nice but can live without (obviously it is not as easy to integrate the make/run environments for many other languages). After all, ST is an editor, not an IDE. Multi-languge IDEs have many issues of their own. (Well, if you want Eclipse, you know where you can get it....)

Obviously, other people's preferences are different. Likely, only a very few plugins are really essential. I haven't tried the various SSH plugins with ST3. That is probably critical especially since every serious competing programming editor has it natively or offers a working, reliable plugin.

Linting across a variety of languages is also essential.

There are a diverse array of nice-to-have plugins that are different for different users (that's why they are nice to have... ...and not essential). A plugin community is a nice thing to have. But, the Sublime Pty developer(s?) need to take responsibility for the few critical plugins that provide features required for ST to be competitive. There are different ways to achieve this, above.

It would be nice to see Jon Skinner reply.
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Quick note re: plugins

Postby lewisl on Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:55 pm

The Python build environment very usable as a way to run Python scripts from within ST. Works great for unit tests.
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Re: Sublime Text 3 Beta

Postby anandsunku on Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:30 am

SublimeText with c++ aware code completion will make the ultimate. i don't know, looks like people of sublime got kind of tired developing the whole software maybe, yeah it happens as time goes people get tired to develop things :(.

but just in case sublime text is with code completion for c++, i think it becomes the only editor for everybody, nothing can beat sublime text for its speed, simplicity and a developer with sublime is more than a super hero.

low power consumption, not a sluggish gui like eclipse or a bloated gui like visual studio. i spent almost 3 weeks to get used to sublime in a passive way, but without intellisense now i feel little cheated.

everything requires a wait !!!, sublime please make it better for c++.
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