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Re: ★★★ The unofficial bug tracking, powered by us. ★★★

Postby tito on Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:34 pm

We can't control which features will be included or not, which bug will be fixed or not, that is a decision of the developers.

We should just focus into trying to provide an organized and informative collection of problems and wishes. If we work hard, in an organized way, eventually someone of the team, will keep an eye in our words. But, this requires cooperation of the community. I think this way: If something is broken, and you have possibility to fix it, just do it, if we don't fix it, then is our own fault.(talking about bug tracking). Unles jon demonstrate disagreement, I suggest we work hard on this. Fill the bugs you know exists, promote the usage, and link to the bugs.

About the severity and priority tags of a bug, I suggest we remove these. We don't know which things have priority or not. We also, can't fairly judge if something is minor or major, because that depends of the usage you do to the software. Can we please remove these tags: S:feature, S:minor, S:crash, S:mayor ?
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Re: ★★★ The unofficial bug tracking, powered by us. ★★★

Postby iamntz on Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:49 pm

About the severity and priority tags of a bug, I suggest we remove these

Agree. Everything is relative here. But...

Can we please remove these tags: S:feature, S:minor, S:crash, S:mayor ?

Not really. If there is a crash, i guess this is major stuff. If someone asks for tooltips, this is a feature. The [url =https://github.com/SublimeText/Issues/issues/1]issue that i opened[/url] is minor. Annoying, but not a dealbreaker. On the other hand, this guys seems to have a major issue here (even i'm pretty sure there is a plugin involved)

We really need Jon (or any other moderator if there is any) to pin this thread on all sub-forums (and on support page too!), because this thread will otherwise die in couple of days if there is no activity...
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Re: ★★★ The unofficial bug tracking, powered by us. ★★★

Postby tito on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:24 pm

Crashes are reported in forums. And fixed almost immediately, right?
The "Severity:feature" makes no-sense to me, there is already the type "Type:feature":

Type: bug (some malfunction)
Type: enhancement (something can be better)
Type: feature request (something is not there)

and the severities I'm suggesting to remove:

Severity: feature
Severity: minor
Severity: crash
Severity: major

mmm.. :)

[edit] - another option is to add "Type: Crash" and make it blink in red, black and fluos :?
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Re: ★★★ The unofficial bug tracking, powered by us. ★★★

Postby iamntz on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:45 pm

If you ask me, there should be only three (main) tags:
- bug
- feature request
- enhancement (although this may fall very easy into „feature request” category)

And done. Then, lobby for Jon (and ST staff) to follow the bug tracker and, most imporant, take it in consideration and make it visible on forum, support page and even a link into ST help menu.
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Re: ★★★ The unofficial bug tracking, powered by us. ★★★

Postby robertcollier4 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:16 pm

iamntz wrote:- feature request
- enhancement (although this may fall very easy into „feature request” category)

"feature request" and "enhancement" mean the same thing and should be merged imho.

iamntz wrote:Then, lobby for Jon (and ST staff) to follow the bug tracker and, most imporant, take it in consideration and make it visible on forum, support page and even a link into ST help menu.

I think Jon will take this seriously. He set up Userecho for this very purpose. But the main problem with Userecho is that he is using the free edition of Userecho which only allows defining one administrator. Thus - he is the only one who can close and officially mark the status of topics. We need around 8-10 administrators/moderators who can continuously close out topics or mark them as duplicates. If issues are not closed or marked as duplicates appropriately by moderators than the system becomes chaotic and unorganized. "Open issues" should be a clear and concise view which Jon can check every week or so.
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Re: ★★★ The unofficial bug tracking, powered by us. ★★★

Postby iamntz on Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:30 pm

"feature request" and "enhancement" mean the same thing and should be merged imho.

Agree, that's why i used the paranthesis! :D
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Re: ★★★ The unofficial bug tracking, powered by us. ★★★

Postby tito on Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:49 pm

OK, I'm agree, for simplicity, I see a merge of these tags, and the removal of the others, we don't want to complicate the taxonomy, browsing and labeling, and in any case if some of these needs to be improved, we can do it later.
Now there is a very clean set of labels, easy to understand for everyone:

Types:
T: bug
T: enhancement/feature

Resolutions:
R: fixed
R: invalid/duplicated

And the categories....

Take a look: https://github.com/SublimeText/Issues/issues
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Re: ★★★ The unofficial bug tracking, powered by us. ★★★

Postby robertcollier4 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:08 pm

I think "enhancement/feature" can just be "enhancement" to make it look cleaner.

Also, I think that categories Sidebar, Minimap, Menus, Statusbar could be merged into "View/Tabs/Groups/Layouts UI" for just one category called "UserInterface". So then the categories would be:
Code: Select all
C: API
C: Snippets
C: Build Systems
C: Commands
C: Find and replace
C: Go to anything
C: Keybindings
C: Projects
C: Selections
C: Settings
C: Syntaxes
C: UserInterface

Even further, an argument could be made that "Commands" and "API" should also be merged into just "API". What is the use case for having a different tag for "Commands" vs "API" ?
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Re: ★★★ The unofficial bug tracking, powered by us. ★★★

Postby FichteFoll on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:03 am

tito wrote:Types:
T: bug
T: enhancement/feature

Resolutions:
R: fixed
R: invalid/duplicated


Regarding types:
I liked the idea to differentiate between enhancements/tweaks (which are not bugs) and completely new features, that's why I added 'Note: "enhancements" are modifications to existing behaviour as opposed to something entirely new.' to the README. If we really want to merge these completely I'd suggest just using "enhancement" though because long labels suck.

Regarding the resolutions:
Closing an issue because it is a duplicate (the issue already exists on the tracker) or because it is a non-issue (e.g. caused by a plugin, something irrelevant, something that is already implemented ...) are entirely different reasons. I don't think you can merge them. And they help reviewing closed issues. I mean, if you have about 300 closed issues (which could be possible here) this becomes really messy because you can't see immediately why an issue has been closed.

Regarding severity:
As iamntz pointed out there are differences between issues in their severity. If I want to be able to hook into an "on_reload" event (see #9) that's a feature or something not that that important (I kinda dislike the use of "feature" here, we just need something below "minor"). If I experience crashes such as when saving a file or ST doesn't even boot up even with a fresh install then this is an important thing because it keeps me from using ST at all. Imo we can pre-filter issues like these from a rather objective point of view but we should probably agree on some guidelines for these.

Crashes are reported in forums. And fixed almost immediately, right?
The "Severity:feature" makes no-sense to me, there is already the type "Type:feature":

What would be the point of the bug tracker if issues are not reported on it? I thought this idea was about centralizing issues and having a few people who can moderate the huge amounts of issues.
As I noted above, "Severity: feature" means something different than a "feature" in itself. I just thought about using "tweak" here, as in: rename the "S: feature" to "S: tweak".
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Re: ★★★ The unofficial bug tracking, powered by us. ★★★

Postby tito on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:53 am

I was testing, I'll not oppose to revert back, re-added most of the removed labels, some comments:

liked the idea to differentiate between enhanceemnts/tweaks
There is a noticeable difference, I like it too, but as you can see on this thread, is somewhat difficult for some people to understand or differentiate, lacking label descriptions.

I can share my experience filling the first serie of bugs, it was a little hard for me to choose bug types, severities, there was an overlap with feature, tweak and enhancement. Very confusing.
Also, I don't know the "severity", I just select one because, is somewhat required, but.. as mentioned, this is relative to the use you do to the editor... something major for me, can be very minor for you.. don't know how to solve it..

I suggest we start filling bugs, once there is some content to classify, we will eventually see things to improve, and then, we can start thinking on how to better tag content. Categories already provide a very good classification, giving location which is very important, because reduce the scope of the issues a lot. I started to think, that this software does not have a big amount of bugs, may have some of these complicated to explain. But I don't think there is 1000 bugs, I can estimate something in the lines of 500~ including features request, will be very easy to navigate and read by clicking very few tags: a category and a type. Is not that you will click a tag and see 200 bugs, maybe 50.. depending of the category, easy to scan with the eyes. (Maybe I'm wrong, that's just my imagination)

_____

Well, my suggestion is, if we don't fill bugs, this will not work.

Allow some mess up at the beginning, be kind, try to be open minded, this software is used in many ways by people of different cultures and backgrounds, try to encourage people to explain further, if you think is required, or is not clear, people will likely help to report properly. ( as seen in #13 )

Maybe we can start by importing bugs from userecho and forums. The big difference here is that we can contribute by moderating everything.

____

Even further, an argument could be made that "Commands" and "API" should also be merged into just "API". What is the use case for having a different tag for "Commands" vs "API" ?

API: classes and functions that the editor provides: http://www.sublimetext.com/docs/3/api_reference.html
Comands: set of user defined functions(there is some shipped commmands too, take a look to the Default package) that use 1 or more API calls to do X(almost any) tasks: http://docs.sublimetext.info/en/latest/ ... ility.html
Commands are the basic method for interacting with Sublime Text. Key bindings, menu items, toolbar buttons and macros all work through the command system
A package defines commands, that use the API to customize the editor.

____

About crashes, I think these should be reported in forums, and maybe tracked in github. I say reported in forums, because crashes can cause real problems. Jon seems to monitor these problems seriously.

I will keep an eye into this project and thread, trying to fill bugs. Don't wait for my approval, this is a community project, don't forget, If you see there is consensus between the participants, move with attitude!
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