Home Download Buy Blog Forum Support

New logo discussion?

Re: New logo discussion?

Postby Anomareh on Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:43 pm

I agree with some of your points.

First, saying: "Well all the other icons don't describe what they're owners do so it's ok!" doesn't make it a good thing to do. Sure there might be other acceptable reasons but that really isn't one of them. Perhaps the majority of apps just have bad icons? IE is an initial of the app as well as the planet ring giving off the idea it has something to do with the internet. Firefox, again the planet associated with the internet and a fire colored fox. Chome's icon at least has Google's colors. Safari's is a compass indicating you'll be navigating something. Adobe apps all have the app initials in their icon.

On your second point I agree with what a logo or icon should encapsulate. I personally don't find that a black square is easily recognizable as "Sublime Text" however. Personally the one major identifiable feature of Sublime to me is it's minimap. Plenty of other editors can use dark themes or be skinned to be dark. Many people use / prefer dark themes and don't think of editors as being light or dark.

Again, in the end this is just about an icon and Sublime's really isn't so bad that it's a problem. A strong and stable feature set speaks a lot louder than an icon ever will.
Anomareh
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:32 pm

Re: New logo discussion?

Postby GreyWyvern on Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:48 pm

I just want to go on record as saying the current icon of ST is perfect. Don't change anything about it. It's simple, and clean, just like ST itself. When ST is first installed, a blank, dark-themed window (like the icon!) is the first thing you see, even if you change it later.

As for the full "logo" which currently seems to be "Sublime" in #757575 and "Text" in #000000, all in Trebuchet MS... I like the colours, but IMHO it could be spruced-up a bit, is all.
GreyWyvern
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:08 pm
Location: Canadia

Re: New logo discussion?

Postby GreyWyvern on Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:27 pm

Here is me messing around with a few ideas. Not that a new logo is a big deal or anything ST needs; the current one is, if anything, sufficient. In the following designs I tried to evoke the minimap, which is a defining feature of ST IMHO. I made two of each, one with a slight gradient, and one using the plain original colours.

Image
Image

Image
Image

Image
Image
GreyWyvern
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:08 pm
Location: Canadia

Re: New logo discussion?

Postby charlesroper on Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:54 am

Anomareh wrote:First, saying: "Well all the other icons don't describe what they're owners do so it's ok!" doesn't make it a good thing to do.


I didn't say that. :)

Anomareh wrote:Perhaps the majority of apps just have bad icons? IE is an initial of the app as well as the planet ring giving off the idea it has something to do with the internet. Firefox, again the planet associated with the internet and a fire colored fox. Chome's icon at least has Google's colors. Safari's is a compass indicating you'll be navigating something. Adobe apps all have the app initials in their icon.


OK, following this logic, Sublime's icon is as good as any of these other icons. It's a black square which represents the look of Sublime and its philosophy of zen simplicity and hidden depths. On my Windows 7 task bar it stands out perfectly well, and looks good, unlike some of the other icons. How would making it a more literal interpretation help?

Anomareh wrote:Again, in the end this is just about an icon and Sublime's really isn't so bad that it's a problem. A strong and stable feature set speaks a lot louder than an icon ever will.


Completely agree. Jon seems to have the aesthetic judgement of a designer even though he may not be a designer (just like Steve Jobs) and I believe the look and feel of Sublime is in good hands with him. The last thing he needs is 'design by community' and I'd imagine (I hope!) he's ignoring this thread. ;) Although the very fact the community is having this conversation shows that we care. We're passionate. We love Sublime and want it to succeed. That's a good thing.
charlesroper
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:30 am

Re: New logo discussion?

Postby Anomareh on Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:15 pm

charlesroper wrote:I didn't say that. :)


When you started talking about other icons (incorrectly) that failed to do the same thing, that's what you were implying.

charlesroper wrote:OK, following this logic, Sublime's icon is as good as any of these other icons. It's a black square which represents the look of Sublime and its philosophy of zen simplicity and hidden depths. On my Windows 7 task bar it stands out perfectly well, and looks good, unlike some of the other icons. How would making it a more literal interpretation help?


It really isn't. If you're only exposure to Firefox/IE/Chrome/Safari/Adobe was looking at their equivalent "tour" pages and then you later saw their icon you'd probably recognize what it belonged to. It's not necessarily that it should be more literal, just more defining, and being more literal is one way to help accomplish that. There are a lot of apps that have a "dark look and a philosophy of zen simplicity". Should they all share the same icon? Currently the icon doesn't identify with it's owner in any significant or unique way, and in my opinion Sublime is truly a unique editor. If my only exposure to Sublime was it's tour on the front page and I later saw it's icon, I'd have no idea what it belonged too.

charlesroper wrote:Completely agree. Jon seems to have the aesthetic judgement of a designer even though he may not be a designer (just like Steve Jobs) and I believe the look and feel of Sublime is in good hands with him. The last thing he needs is 'design by community' and I'd imagine (I hope!) he's ignoring this thread. ;) Although the very fact the community is having this conversation shows that we care. We're passionate. We love Sublime and want it to succeed. That's a good thing.


Indeed.
Anomareh
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:32 pm

Re: New logo discussion?

Postby charlesroper on Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:23 am

Anomareh wrote:When you started talking about other icons (incorrectly) that failed to do the same thing, that's what you were implying.


No, you inferred it. I said "Logos (or icons) shouldn't be taken literally," then gave some examples of successful non-literal icons, then went on to say "A good logo and/or icon should encapsulate the brand." I stand by that argument. I would qualify the first statement with "Logos (or icons) shouldn't necessarily be taken literally." A good icon can be literal.

Anomareh wrote:If you're only exposure to Firefox/IE/Chrome/Safari/Adobe was looking at their equivalent "tour" pages and then you later saw their icon you'd probably recognize what it belonged to. It's not necessarily that it should be more literal, just more defining, and being more literal is one way to help accomplish that. There are a lot of apps that have a "dark look and a philosophy of zen simplicity". Should they all share the same icon? Currently the icon doesn't identify with it's owner in any significant or unique way, and in my opinion Sublime is truly a unique editor. If my only exposure to Sublime was it's tour on the front page and I later saw it's icon, I'd have no idea what it belonged too.


OK, but that's a different argument. You're not arguing that the icon should be more literal, but arguing that it should be more distinct. I could agree with you on that, perhaps. However, your original argument was that you should be able to "tell Sublime's purpose from it's icon," which is why I said "Logos (or icons) shouldn't be taken literally," which, again, I stand by. You should be able to identify Sublime from it's icon, that's true. It's purpose is inferred from everything you already know about it: you see the icon, you think Sublime, your brain does the rest.

I personally find ST's logo distinct enough, but then I don't have any other apps with similar icons, which means for me Sublime 'owns' the black square. And I don't think I've ever come across another app with a similar icon. So for these reasons, it is a good icon for me. It may not be a good icon for you because you have a bunch of apps with similar icons. I agree that it could perhaps be made more distinct. I guess it's for Jon to decide.
charlesroper
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:30 am

Re: New logo discussion?

Postby Anomareh on Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:05 pm

charlesroper wrote:No, you inferred it. I said "Logos (or icons) shouldn't be taken literally," then gave some examples of successful non-literal icons, then went on to say "A good logo and/or icon should encapsulate the brand." I stand by that argument. I would qualify the first statement with "Logos (or icons) shouldn't necessarily be taken literally." A good icon can be literal.


The first sentence you type said they flat-out shouldn't be taken literally. You pretty much just reworded the sentence "Those other icons aren't literal so this one doesn't need to be." which was what I said you were implying and was apparently correct about. No idea why you would refute that and then go on to do exactly what I said it was you were doing.

Saying icons shouldn't be taken literally then giving examples of successful non-literal icons gives the very implication you believe icons don't need to be literal because hey here are some successful non-literal ones. Especially only when you go on to say A good logo should encapsulate the brand. in a separate paragraph. I could have listed just as many successful literal icons.

charlesroper wrote:OK, but that's a different argument. You're not arguing that the icon should be more literal, but arguing that it should be more distinct. I could agree with you on that, perhaps. However, your original argument was that you should be able to "tell Sublime's purpose from it's icon," which is why I said "Logos (or icons) shouldn't be taken literally," which, again, I stand by. You should be able to identify Sublime from it's icon, that's true. It's purpose is inferred from everything you already know about it: you see the icon, you think Sublime, your brain does the rest.

I personally find ST's logo distinct enough, but then I don't have any other apps with similar icons, which means for me Sublime 'owns' the black square. And I don't think I've ever come across another app with a similar icon. So for these reasons, it is a good icon for me. It may not be a good icon for you because you have a bunch of apps with similar icons. I agree that it could perhaps be made more distinct. I guess it's for Jon to decide.


I was arguing that being literal is a way of making an icon more distinct (which I prefer over just being something abstract). If Sublime's icon was a black square with a pencil or a cursor then surely it wouldn't be the icon for the media player "with a dark look and a philosophy for zen simplicity".
Anomareh
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:32 pm

Re: New logo discussion?

Postby marksteve on Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:37 pm

Took the slab idea into some perspective :P
Image

Screenshot:
Image
marksteve
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:44 am

Re: New logo discussion?

Postby GreyWyvern on Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:25 pm

So how about some logo ideas that include the icon? Best of both worlds? :)

Image

Image

Image

Here is a 128px x 128px blowup of the icon in case anyone wants to use it:
Image
GreyWyvern
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:08 pm
Location: Canadia

Re: New logo discussion?

Postby charlesroper on Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:36 pm

Anomareh wrote:The first sentence you type said they flat-out shouldn't be taken literally.


That's true, although I later qualified that with necessarily which you perhaps missed?

Anomareh wrote:You pretty much just reworded the sentence "Those other icons aren't literal so this one doesn't need to be." which was what I said you were implying and was apparently correct about. No idea why you would refute that and then go on to do exactly what I said it was you were doing.


With the greatest respect, you're putting words in my mouth. That's a misrepresentation of my position; a straw man argument. You're quite literally inferring this as you inferred that other sentence you made up. I am implying that logos/icons should not necessarily be literal.

Anomareh wrote:Saying icons shouldn't be taken literally then giving examples of successful non-literal icons gives the very implication you believe icons don't need to be literal because hey here are some successful non-literal ones.


I gave some examples of successful icons that aren't literal. I am saying that icons shouldn't necessarily be literal. What is your point here?

Anomareh wrote:Especially only when you go on to say A good logo should encapsulate the brand. in a separate paragraph. I could have listed just as many successful literal icons.


OK, you could have listed just as many successful literal ones - so why didn't you?

You seem to be plucking bits of my argument out in support of your own and not taking the whole thing into account. To put things simply so that you don't misunderstand me, the vast majority of icons are not literal, they are abstract. Most successful icons are abstract and do not literally represent what the application does. This is a basic principle we learn at design school in logo and branding classes. It's been over 10 years since I was at design school, but the principle hasn't changed. I'm not just making this stuff up.

Anomareh wrote:I was arguing that being literal is a way of making an icon more distinct (which I prefer over just being something abstract).


You may prefer it, but the body of evidence suggests that successful icons tend to be more abstract than literal. An allusion rather than a realistic rendering. I have no problem with the icon being more distinct, but it looks pretty good to me already. It works.

Anomareh wrote:If Sublime's icon was a black square with a pencil or a cursor then surely it wouldn't be the icon for the media player "with a dark look and a philosophy for zen simplicity".


Surely the icon is alluding to a blank slate? That suits a text editing app, right? What are blank slates for after all (apart from roofing material, of course)? A black square with either a pencil or a cursor is cheesy and cliché. But maybe that's appropriate for the feel Jon is going for? What do you think?

@marksteve Nice - that makes the blank slate idea more obvious and fits with the definition of sublime as "sloping up to the lintel", although it loses some of its purity. How does it look at different sizes?
charlesroper
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:30 am

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests