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1.2 Released

Re: 1.2 Released

Postby jps on Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:16 am

jaydee wrote:Note: You might want to update the site's download links with this, as they still point to 1.05 :)

They do? They're linking to 1.2 for me... perhaps a caching issue?
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Re: 1.2 Released

Postby artee on Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:31 am

Thank you very much for all improvements :)
The main problem with recent version of SB is IMNHO related to lack of documentation.
There were a lot of changes last time with not reflected documentation.
If Sublime claims to be an excelent editor for programmers it should provide well documented API, commands reference and so on.
For example, I'm going to create online theme editor for Sublime and I have a lot of problems with structure of theme file.
There is no information about list of valid keywords, or there are strange characters inside (see Doctype/XML Processing, Meta.tag, etc...)
The same situation is in documentation for snippets (are there any?).
Binding to keys were changed but there are no appropriate documentation for this.
Another problem is related to plugins because there is no information about version of plugin/snippet despite the list of them is growing up and it is hard to determine what was changed according to them in a new version. In my opinion there should be a field with this information in plugins API?
In conclussion, maybe this is a good time to tidy up whole project before another exciting features will be implemented ;)

PS. If my theme editor will be done I'll share it with the community :)

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Re: 1.2 Released

Postby lbolognini on Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:07 am

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Re: 1.2 Released

Postby lbolognini on Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:50 pm

sublimator wrote:Do you have to join Reddit?

Yup! Maybe someone could also make a review/blog post that we could digg

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Re: 1.2 Released

Postby EJ12N on Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:51 pm

congrats on the stable release :D
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Re: 1.2 Released

Postby artee on Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:29 pm

sublimator wrote:What do you mean exactly?

Typical software has a version number. Because the plugin is such piece of software it should contain this number.
If plugin is updated - revision is updated. Pretty simple :)
In the future, if Sublime will have hundreds of plugins ;) it would be great idea to have option like Plugin manager where this revision number will be displayed and allow the user to update plugin package automatically (like PyPi).

sublimator wrote:A good practice for when updating sublime ( core or plugins ) is to have everything under version control.

It's a great idea. But I will prefer built-in mechanism.
Maybe simple revision control system should be included in core of Sublime?

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Re: 1.2 Released

Postby vim on Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:58 am

personally, one of the only things i feel sublime is not doing things right is with the plugin system. not that i am saying the plugins or other enhancement are not good, to the contrary, i love it, but their management is very poor.

in the past we had a discussion over it, and few of us (including me) said they use some kind of revision control for this. i feel this is not the right solution. let me describe some examples:
  • i use CTags plugin, how can i know if i am up to date? how can i check the latest version, but also fall back if some bug slipped in?
  • i wrote some snippets for erlang, will they be there (Packages/Erlang) also on the next version update? won't they be overridden? can i be sure? and if someone else just wrote snippet with the same name? and how can i even know if a new snippet with the same name exists already?
  • why do i need the Groovy package (no offense groovy guys) if i don't even know for what it is?
  • how can i distribute my snippets/plugins easily between my friends and co-workers? some of them wrote already their versions, how can they choose?
  • i wrote a new package, do i need to zip it and expect them to extract it on %appdata%/.../Packages? and what if they and me still keeping adding changes? how will we merge it all? if we chose to use a revision control, do i expect from each of them to (1) svn update (2) copy to %appdata%/.../Packages (3) still, what about merges? or should they svn the appdata%/.../Packages itself?

i think that if we solve those issues, we'll have a dream-machine. as jon said, sublime is going to rely on enhancements, plugins, snippets. so their management should be a breeze, easy to pick and add, easy to use. last steps on the snippets, was wonderful, lets keep it up :)

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Re: 1.2 Released

Postby artee on Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:44 am

sublimator wrote:Where are you getting these plugins? As a sublime-package from the wiki or from the community repo?

I have no idea where, but IMHO it should be a common place like PyPi.
Plugins repository is growing up and due to the fact that most of them don't have any information about author, version and description it will be a problem in the future.
It would be a good practise to add the following variables to plugin body: __author__ and __version__.
Documentation can be done on module level (docstrings).

sublimator wrote:(For the moment) I'd recommend getting them as a subversion checkout where you can do things like `svn update and svn log`.

It's an excellent idea and it can be easily done by a programmer. Sublime is a text editor for programmers so geeks can have some problems with that ;)
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Re: 1.2 Released

Postby vim on Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:13 am

If not version control then why not? And if not then how else to solve the problem? Are you talking having package assets have a UUID like TextMate/e/Intype has? Ability to disable bundles etc?

one of the only features i loved on e when i checked it out was the bundle system. i liked that i can choose what to actually have on my PC, i liked the ability to check for updates, and choose to update bundles, and i liked how it was integrated int the editor. i must say, i didn't used e much time so i don't know the flaws this solution might have.
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Re: 1.2 Released

Postby artee on Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:15 pm

sublimator wrote:I'm not really following you here Artee. You think it's too hard for a non programmer?

Do you think that "svn update http://sublime.... is a natural way to determine what was changed in plugins/configuration since last time?
Most software I've ever seen use simpler pattern: revision and release notes.

sublimator wrote:__author__ and __version__ I can do if it will make you happy (though version control has that inbuilt ) but I don't particularly like massive docstrings. __author__ and __version__ won't solve any problems in and of themselves though.

Yes I agree with you but since Sublime use Python, some features can be done using pythonic way ;)
According to docstrings - it was only a proposal due to the fact that a lot of plugins will be provided as a single file.

sublimator wrote:You want a package index like PyPi?

Yes and no ;)
Compare the following screens:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Pylons/0.9.7 or
The first contains a lot of usefull information about plugin - the second is completely useless (I apologize for a choice ;)).

sublimator wrote:PyPi is built upon a lot of setuptools/distutils infrastructure that simply isn't applicable unfortunately.

PyPi was an idea how it can be accomplished.
I think that we need simpler system because community is respectively smaller.

sublimator wrote:Who is going to do that job?

It depends on who have access to edit such information :)
I think that simple wiki page or phpBB forum is too static to do that (and doesn't have an integration with SVN or Git).
Maybe CMS like Plone or other simple solution? Hosting is cheap, e.g. Webfaction account - 10$ per year :D
If it will be based on the Python I'm ready to help.

I know, that above information maybe is related to systems with big community and lot of plugins but AFAIK Sublime claims to be a piece of software entirely based on plugins so IMHO should provide proper platform for this.
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