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Thoughts from an Emacs user

Re: Thoughts from an Emacs user

Postby C0D312 on Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:01 pm

This is the stupidest thread ever. I own an iPod. Should Apple give me all their secrets? No.

Jon has spent the last 4 years working tirelessly on this software. You're all suggesting that he should just give it away. WTF.

I get that society is going through an "OPEN SOURCE EVERYTHING!!!" era, but that's a ridiculous and wrongful sense of entitlement.

Anyway, those just some thoughts from a rational person...
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Re: Thoughts from an Emacs user

Postby sublimator on Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:24 am

C0D312 wrote:I get that society is going through an "OPEN SOURCE EVERYTHING!!!" era, but that's a ridiculous and wrongful sense of entitlement.


All the grammars / snippets / plugins are open source

A lot of the foundation libs/modules Sublime is built on are free / open source. Python/Boost/Onigurama/Pango/GTK etc

Just think about Sublime with no Python? Or even no open source/free scripting language (and extensive libs)?

"SublimeScript"? ick!

Dunno about a `leech` user of open source software but you could argue Pango developers deserve a free Sublime license and the source to tinker with.

All the licenses technically allow this kind of one way tributary flow though it's not really `the vibe of the thing`

I wonder if Jon studied much of the emacs/vim/nano source?

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Re: Thoughts from an Emacs user

Postby tito on Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:46 am

All the grammars / snippets /


I can't find anything that confirm this. There is no licenses in the package folder or application folder. Can you please give me some light.

I'm concerned that we are using things like XX.tmLanguage and I can't find the license that allows me or Sublime Text to use that file.

It's just something that I ignore, I want to see these. Jon was asked about this and he ignored the thread.

I come from Mozilla Extension development on which almost everything has a license, and we don't hack on things that are not licensed ( even if you can read the source )
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Re: Thoughts from an Emacs user

Postby C0D312 on Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:47 am

@castles Since you quoted me, I'm not sure if you're post is directed towards me or not. I wasn't arguing against open source, just that you shouldn't be forced to open source something. It'd be like playing poker and someone telling you to show them your hand.
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Re: Thoughts from an Emacs user

Postby C0D312 on Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:50 am

tito wrote:I can't find anything that confirm this.

viewtopic.php?p=20003#p20003
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Re: Thoughts from an Emacs user

Postby sublimator on Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:59 am

C0D312 wrote:@castles Since you quoted me, I'm not sure if you're post is directed towards me or not. I wasn't arguing against open source, just that you shouldn't be forced to open source something. It'd be like playing poker and someone telling you to show them your hand.


I'd see it more like building a cool house in the middle of a forest someone else cleared out. The guys pulled up all the roots and left a big pile of wood to build with. Hell, they even left their hammer, nails and saw before they went off wherever they went. They come back and you charge em $59 for the pleasure of staying in your abode. Because of all the varnish your rubbed over everything they don't recognize their wood you used. They just pay up. Of course, once the new extension is built on the 3rd floor, they got to pay again if they want to hang out up there.

You can get away with it cause your house is cool and that's just the way things are.

Of course, the wood/tools you used weren't actually *taken* from the communal mob in the sense of them *losing* something but there was definitely effort involved there in creation/refinement. And when something is just as easy/costless to `give back` as mass reproduceable software why wouldn't you? There's a zillion plus one rooms in your house.

So it'd be like a cynic silently smirking as his `naive` friends showed their hands in poker all the while jealously guarding his own hand.

Without giving anything back it's just exploiting the idealism and hard work of others. But then the world is full of exploitation huh? Nothing new to see here folks.
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Re: Thoughts from an Emacs user

Postby C0D312 on Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:15 am

Wow... that's one very cynical and depressing post. Guess I hit a soft spot. :(
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Re: Thoughts from an Emacs user

Postby sublimator on Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:24 am

C0D312 wrote:that's one very cynical and depressing post


welcome to my world :/

I guess my point is there's a lot of work behind Sublime that comes out of a spirit of sharing and it shouldn't be forgotten in discussions on disclosing Sublime source.

And the world goes on and everyone still needs to eat.

The top poster has valid concerns. I'd probably learn emacs as my first editor if I could do it over.
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Re: Thoughts from an Emacs user

Postby C0D312 on Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:51 am

As for your forest analogy, it has a hole in it.

I'd see it more like building a cool house in the middle of a forest someone else cleared out. The guys pulled up all the roots and left a big pile of wood to build with. Hell, they even left their hammer, nails and saw before they went off wherever they went.

It would be fairer to say that everyone was given a big pile of wood and a hammer. Jon just had the brains to build the house. We all have the tools, so what's stopping you from building you're own house in the forest? Nothing. So why be upset that Jon wants to charge people for staying in his house? And it's not like he's forced to share his house. What if Jon build Sublime Text and didn't even sell it? He just had it sitting on his computer and his alone. Would you be mad? He's not taking anything away or adding anything, but he used the tools he was given.

As for the original concerns from the post, Yes. There are limitations to having Sublime Text as closed source. But so be it.

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@castles: instead of talking about trees and hammers, answer your messages and teach me bout custom binding contexts.
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Re: Thoughts from an Emacs user

Postby atomi on Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:55 am

I don't think there is a metaphor that could be considered even remotely analogous to open source software.

It is what it is: a very complicated ecosystem of dependencies and contributions, with each developer having a myriad of diverse intentions.
Sure, it's true that most intents to creating anything are predominantly based on self-interest. And I think there is the commonality of both open and closed source projects.

You can be sure open source projects actually benefit a bit every time someone builds upon them - whether it's an open or closed source project.
But, the fact that Sublime Text uses some open source code is not in itself a good enough reason to expect Jon to open source Sublime Text.

My only concern is Sublime Text not being actively developed or supported either through misfortune or a buyout.
For that reason alone I'd like to see Jon incorporate or organize to a point where Sublime's future is a bit more secure.
Which isn't to say I wouldn't like to see it open sourced, because I would - just to be clear.
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