There are so many alternatives for you to use. If you donāt like the company model or the product, just use one you do like.
There is a FAQ that explains every thing very clear sublimetext.com/sales_faq. We have all purchased things in the past and with certain expectations only to be let down. I have done it with plenty of software. Complained about certain features with other software and never seen them updated. I usually move to an alternative if I feel there is something better out. No one is forcing you to spend money here, if you want a refund, send Jon an email and see what he says.
I personally like sublime text. I read was I was getting before I purchased; and I wasnāt blindsided. I have read how much an upgrade costs and I feel it is reasonable. I have evaluated whether I want to use an alternative at this time, and I have chosen to stick with Sublime Text because it is something I work very well with, and at this time, I like supporting this editor. If I was coming to Sublime Text for the first time, $70 bucks would probably give me some pause, maybe not. I greatly enjoy the plugin system for Sublime Text which gives me fantastic flexibility. To be honest, it is the simple plugin system (which has gotten even better) that has kept me here.
There are others who in some way are trying to emulate Sublime Text like TextAdapt. If you are unhappy with Sublime Text and want a free, open source, multi-platform editor that is trying to emulate Sublime Text, maybe you should try it: Here, foicica.com/textadept/01_Introduction.html.
There is nothing wrong with you expressing your opinion, but you seem very unhappy, why not just move on to something that makes you happy?
[quote=āfacelessuserā]There are so many alternatives for you to use. If you donāt like the company model or the product, just use one you do like.
There is a FAQ that explains every thing very clear sublimetext.com/sales_faq. We have all purchased things in the past and with certain expectations only to be let down. I have done it with plenty of software. Complained about certain features with other software and never seen them updated. I usually move to an alternative if I feel there is something better out. No one is forcing you to spend money here, if you want a refund, send Jon an email and see what he says.
I personally like sublime text. I read was I was getting before I purchased; and I wasnāt blindsided. I have read how much an upgrade costs and I feel it is reasonable. I have evaluated whether I want to use an alternative at this time, and I have chosen to stick with Sublime Text because it is something I work very well with, and at this time, I like supporting this editor. If I was coming to Sublime Text for the first time, $70 bucks would probably give me some pause, maybe not. I greatly enjoy the plugin system for Sublime Text which gives me fantastic flexibility. To be honest, it is the simple plugin system (which has gotten even better) that has kept me here.
There are others who in some way are trying to emulate Sublime Text like TextAdapt. If you are unhappy with Sublime Text and want a free, open source, multi-platform editor that is trying to emulate Sublime Text, maybe you should try it: Here, foicica.com/textadept/01_Introduction.html.
There is nothing wrong with you expressing your opinion, but you seem very unhappy, why not just move on to something that makes you happy?[/quote]
The plugin system is also what made me buy ST2 last year. Given that it was in beta at the time, I really had no idea I shouldnāt expect to receive any update at all after the final release is out.
The lack of updates is becoming a serious problem for commercial software.
The amount of effort needed to get some bug fixes to the extremely large number of customers would really build trust and would make a very large number of clients happy - hey, look, this guy didnāt forget about his customers.
Furthermore, given that fixing a bug would fix it for all customers at once, the return on that investment would be quite high.
Also, I can understand that heās just one individual, but Iāve received much better support from some folks whoāve sold me software for 10-15 USD. It only took one email and my problem was fixed.
TextAdept seems to be a nice editor. Iāll look into it. Thank you for recommending it, I really appreciate it.
IMO that is not the issue. The issue I have is the lack of communication with regards to any sort of a roadmap and thus I have no idea what to expect. If there was a proper bug tracker where bugs/features are prioritized (by SublimeHQ, not the users), put into milestones and closed as āwill not fixā Iād have a much better idea of how my money is invested and my expectations would be managed.
As others have said in other threads the feature delta between ST2 and ST3 is much smaller than it was between ST1 and ST2. Some users chimed in to say that ST2 was in beta a long time with many, many features added after the initial announcement and that the same thing would probably happen with ST3 too. That is just pure speculation.
Iād like to know what exactly can be expected of ST2 and when, what exactly can be expected of ST3 and when, what will not make it for ST3 but absolutely in a future version, what will never be fixed and what is under consideration.
[quote=ābizooā]Donāt understand the total silence from Sublime Text staff on this topicā¦
Well I suppose that ST2 will not receive any update anymore, but, from a commercially viewpoint, itās not good to report that officially.[/quote]
There is no such thing as the ST staff. Thereās just one guy.
Also, I donāt understand either why theyāre not offering support. After all, he sold a lot of copies for this editor, so it should make sense to support it.
I donāt know what other people do, but I usually want to keep in touch with my clients to make sure theyāre happy and that they keep working with me. So it would make sense for jps to be more responsive and listen to his customersā¦
As for the situation itself, davejones is absolutely right. Itās a nonsense that there were no updates for the āstableā branch while it definitely has bugs. When I pay for some software I expect it to be supported. ST2 is not supported at all. The author does not even respond here.
I think what a people just donāt understand is that (a) sublime is developed by one person who I think now hired two more people and (b) support is incredible time consuming. 90% of bug reports are based on user errors. The original poster, for example, reported a bug about a parsing error as an example and it was pretty clear that the ābugā was either a user error or a bug in a package. Now, you can argue that support means to solve the problems people have. But ST is not able to do that and I really hope will try. Instead, I hope the developers focus on making ST a better text editor, which they are clearly doing!
The error Iāve posted was meant to be the start of a list of weird and dumb errors ST2 likes to spit out for no reason sometimesā¦ Itās always another file and another thing.
The guy is doing nothing to offer support to the customers, no offense. There are REAL DEFECTS AND REAL BUGS which heās not fixing and theyāre all over these forums. Iāve bought ST2, NOT ST3. I expect to GET SUPPORT FOR ST2, not be told to wait for ST3, nor be told by people on the forum āhey, dude, itās REALLY cheap, just pay a few bucks when ST3 is out to get the new ST and get rid of the bugsā. I really expect to receive actual SUPPORT from the actual legal entity (firm, company, whatever) which is providing that software.
The fact that he was just a single person isnāt our problem. Weāve paid money for that software and we really deserve support. We donāt have the source code - we canāt fix it ourselves. So weāre left at the mercy of this guy who seems to have vanished or to be ignoring everyoneā¦and I really donāt care what his problem is as long as he all but completely evaporated and then suddenly released ST3 beta.
If heās just one single person, itās his problem. I believe heās sold over 100000 copies of ST2. That means weāre talking about 5900000 USD. I donāt know about you, but with that kind of money I could hire enough people to build a corporation around a product.
Given how much money heās been paid for the licenses heās sold, I really donāt think itās a financial problem. People live off of far smaller amounts of money in this world and he has certainly received a lot of it since he released the ST2 beta. If heās really earned at least 5 million USD, you could say he may have had 200k-400k USD of debts to pay, 1-2 millions to pay in taxes and so on. Heād still have more than enough to afford himself to hire a team to: a) run a community, b) maintain an issue tracker and get feedback from customers, c) handle some project management tasks and d) answer emails from customers.
So him being just him and 2 guys in his organization is entirely his problem and itās his concern.
If thatās too difficult for people to understand, please let me know so I can just forget about it.
I have bought a lot of software in the past with poor (or almost non-existent) support and I didnāt expect Sublime to be better at this point. Iām using Sublime everyday for the last 2 years and didnāt have any serious bug.
Iām sorry if you guys are experiencing so much trouble. As other people said, you can try to get a refund.
The error Iāve posted was meant to be the start of a list of weird and dumb errors ST2 likes to spit out for no reason sometimesā¦ Itās always another file and another thing.
The guy is doing nothing to offer support to the customers, no offense. There are REAL DEFECTS AND REAL BUGS which heās not fixing and theyāre all over these forums. Iāve bought ST2, NOT ST3. I expect to GET SUPPORT FOR ST2, not be told to wait for ST3, nor be told by people on the forum āhey, dude, itās REALLY cheap, just pay a few bucks when ST3 is out to get the new ST and get rid of the bugsā. I really expect to receive actual SUPPORT from the actual legal entity (firm, company, whatever) which is providing that software.
The fact that he was just a single person isnāt our problem. Weāve paid money for that software and we really deserve support. We donāt have the source code - we canāt fix it ourselves. So weāre left at the mercy of this guy who seems to have vanished or to be ignoring everyoneā¦and I really donāt care what his problem is as long as he all but completely evaporated and then suddenly released ST3 beta.
If heās just one single person, itās his problem. I believe heās sold over 100000 copies of ST2. That means weāre talking about 5900000 USD. I donāt know about you, but with that kind of money I could hire enough people to build a corporation around a product.
Given how much money heās been paid for the licenses heās sold, I really donāt think itās a financial problem. People live off of far smaller amounts of money in this world and he has certainly received a lot of it since he released the ST2 beta. If heās really earned at least 5 million USD, you could say he may have had 200k-400k USD of debts to pay, 1-2 millions to pay in taxes and so on. Heād still have more than enough to afford himself to hire a team to: a) run a community, b) maintain an issue tracker and get feedback from customers, c) handle some project management tasks and d) answer emails from customers.
So him being just him and 2 guys in his organization is entirely his problem and itās his concern.
If thatās too difficult for people to understand, please let me know so I can just forget about it.[/quote]
Keep cool please, do not speculate on something that nobody knows.
As a fairly long ST user, I can testify that thereās some kind of support from jps.
In the past during ST2 development and now with ST3 development, reported bugs are often fixed in a very short time, unfortunately often without any kind of feedback in the forum: you have to check the changelog or try yourself the new build to see if your bug is fixed.
I have great respect for jps, heās brilliant and very efficient. But communication doesnāt look like his strong point.
Iāll not throw the first stone, itās not mine either.
And everybody know that itās a very time consuming task, and that must not slow down development of new features too much.
But I think thereās some kind of compromise to find to make everybody happy.
Why not spending at most one hour a day to give some help and feedback to users and eventually fix issues in past version (read ST2).
[quote=āwesllyā]I have bought a lot of software in the past with poor (or almost non-existent) support and I didnāt expect Sublime to be better at this point. Iām using Sublime everyday for the last 2 years and didnāt have any serious bug.
Iām sorry if you guys are experiencing so much trouble. As other people said, you can try to get a refund.
I use ST2 at work for ā¦ almost 2 years? Itās been rock solid for at least a yearāa little rough in the early stages of beta, but stable for a very long time for me.
At home Iāve been using ST3 which has also been solid (much more so than early ST2 betas) and works with all my essential plugins. And every (minor) bug Iāve reported has been fixed in short order.
That to me is very much worth the $59 I paid in Apr of 2011. Iāve spent thousands of hours using ST2 and love it. Makes coding a joy.
I sympathize with having issues with the stable branch of software youāre purchased, I use other programs with lingering bugs that I run into just about every day (Forklift, Iām looking at you). But it sure doesnāt seem to be the norm with ST2. Definitely not my experience.
Instead of pouring so much anger into the forum, it seems to make more sense to try another editor, another community, see if you can find one that fits better. As with browsers, we live in a golden age. So many great choices!
Hello, I do support this editor and the developer, but I have some doubtsā¦ this is my opinion donāt take it personally.
Does not matter for which languages I use sublime text, IT matter most if the API can work correctly, every function as expected, because this way, we will be able to create and share packages that will āfixā or accommodate, to the infinite different usages(workflows, etc) , that we do when using ST. {2cents}
I canāt believe ST3 added the following, which is already done via the package āTagā, Instead of putting efforts into fixing API things.
And is not even implemented correctly, for example, look at the ST3 completion:
<mega>
<?php
$value = '<div>';
echo '<meta src="">';
$end = '</mega>
It should have written there instead of āā.
I want you John please, to think if you are doing good, by adding features that are already implemented by packages, instead of fixing core things. I believe you should concentrate into providing a strong and full featured API. Look at Firefox and chrome, chrome almost stay the same since the beginning, Firefox introduced so many changes, and have broken so many add-ons, that I switched of browser.
The package system and itās community is not something to subestimateā¦ they add value to your software.
I donāt want to disable things on every update. Today I installed ST3 to give a try, and I noticed I canāt edit the āPreferences.sublime-settingsā, I wanted to do a quick hack, I just closed the window and continue to use ST2.
The error Iāve posted was meant to be the start of a list of weird and dumb errors ST2 likes to spit out for no reason sometimesā¦ Itās always another file and another thing.
The guy is doing nothing to offer support to the customers, no offense. There are REAL DEFECTS AND REAL BUGS which heās not fixing and theyāre all over these forums. Iāve bought ST2, NOT ST3. I expect to GET SUPPORT FOR ST2, not be told to wait for ST3, nor be told by people on the forum āhey, dude, itās REALLY cheap, just pay a few bucks when ST3 is out to get the new ST and get rid of the bugsā. I really expect to receive actual SUPPORT from the actual legal entity (firm, company, whatever) which is providing that software.
The fact that he was just a single person isnāt our problem. Weāve paid money for that software and we really deserve support. We donāt have the source code - we canāt fix it ourselves. So weāre left at the mercy of this guy who seems to have vanished or to be ignoring everyoneā¦and I really donāt care what his problem is as long as he all but completely evaporated and then suddenly released ST3 beta.
If heās just one single person, itās his problem. I believe heās sold over 100000 copies of ST2. That means weāre talking about 5900000 USD. I donāt know about you, but with that kind of money I could hire enough people to build a corporation around a product.
Given how much money heās been paid for the licenses heās sold, I really donāt think itās a financial problem. People live off of far smaller amounts of money in this world and he has certainly received a lot of it since he released the ST2 beta. If heās really earned at least 5 million USD, you could say he may have had 200k-400k USD of debts to pay, 1-2 millions to pay in taxes and so on. Heād still have more than enough to afford himself to hire a team to: a) run a community, b) maintain an issue tracker and get feedback from customers, c) handle some project management tasks and d) answer emails from customers.
So him being just him and 2 guys in his organization is entirely his problem and itās his concern.
If thatās too difficult for people to understand, please let me know so I can just forget about it.
Keep cool please, do not speculate on something that nobody knows.
As a fairly long ST user, I can testify that thereās some kind of support from jps.
In the past during ST2 development and now with ST3 development, reported bugs are often fixed in a very short time, unfortunately often without any kind of feedback in the forum: you have to check the changelog or try yourself the new build to see if your bug is fixed.
I have great respect for jps, heās brilliant and very efficient. But communication doesnāt look like his strong point.
Iāll not throw the first stone, itās not mine either.
And everybody know that itās a very time consuming task, and that must not slow down development of new features too much.
But I think thereās some kind of compromise to find to make everybody happy.
Why not spending at most one hour a day to give some help and feedback to users and eventually fix issues in past version (read ST2).
My 2Ā¢.[/quote]
[quote=ānatebeatyā]
for the last 2 years and didnāt have any serious bug.
Iām sorry if you guys are experiencing so much trouble. As other people said, you can try to get a refund.
I use ST2 at work for ā¦ almost 2 years? Itās been rock solid for at least a yearāa little rough in the early stages of beta, but stable for a very long time for me.
At home Iāve been using ST3 which has also been solid (much more so than early ST2 betas) and works with all my essential plugins. And every (minor) bug Iāve reported has been fixed in short order.
That to me is very much worth the $59 I paid in Apr of 2011. Iāve spent thousands of hours using ST2 and love it. Makes coding a joy.
I sympathize with having issues with the stable branch of software youāre purchased, I use other programs with lingering bugs that I run into just about every day (Forklift, Iām looking at you). But it sure doesnāt seem to be the norm with ST2. Definitely not my experience.
Instead of pouring so much anger into the forum, it seems to make more sense to try another editor, another community, see if you can find one that fits better. As with browsers, we live in a golden age. So many great choices![/quote]
[quote=ātitoā]Hello, I do support this editor and the developer, but I have some doubtsā¦ this is my opinion donāt take it personally.
Does not matter for which languages I use sublime text, IT matter most if the API can work correctly, every function as expected, because this way, we will be able to create and share packages that will āfixā or accommodate, to the infinite different usages(workflows, etc) , that we do when using ST. {2cents}
I canāt believe ST3 added the following, which is already done via the package āTagā, Instead of putting efforts into fixing API things.
And is not even implemented correctly, for example, look at the ST3 completion:
<mega>
<?php
$value = '<div>';
echo '<meta src="">';
$end = '</mega>
It should have written there instead of āā.
I want you John please, to think if you are doing good, by adding features that are already implemented by packages, instead of fixing core things. I believe you should concentrate into providing a strong and full featured API. Look at Firefox and chrome, chrome almost stay the same since the beginning, Firefox introduced so many changes, and have broken so many add-ons, that I switched of browser.
The package system and itās community is not something to subestimateā¦ they add value to your software.
I donāt want to disable things on every update. Today I installed ST3 to give a try, and I noticed I canāt edit the āPreferences.sublime-settingsā, I wanted to do a quick hack, I just closed the window and continue to use ST2.[/quote]
Picking another editor after having invested so much time into ST2 isnāt an option right now. Some of those great editors mentioned are OS X only and they also cost money. None of them canāt even touch ST2.
Thatās the big problem - ST is too good to switch to something else after having used it for a very long time.
Thatās why I even bothered to drop by in the hope that the developer might actually bother to say āyes, I didnāt update ST2 for a long time, perhaps I should start doing thatā. However, it looks like thereās no chance for that to happen. Iām skeptical.
Also, many people mentioned refunds. Are refunds also given for the hours spent setting everything up, testing packages, testing everything and setting up ST2 to be used in an environment? I donāt think anyone can give us back those countless hours.
Whatās the big issue with providing updates for the stable ST2? And donāt tell me itās difficult to do or āhey, go ask for a refundā.
AS for the main question, I forget to mention, I donāt expect any more updates for ST2, looks like there is a terrible effort into bringing a much better editor which probably requires all the available resources.
However, if you purchased ST2 you can still get updates via ST3 Beta, Thatās the update you should expect. I never run a ST2 stable version, my current version is nightly 2219.
In this case. Given the facts, I donāt expect more updates.
I personally donāt completely understand all the angst in this forum. First of all, Iāve pretty much considered the dev builds to be the bug fix track for this product. If you look at the release notes for the dev builds, it shows that JPS has been at least attempting to answer user feedback. The last dev release was in late September, so somewhere around 7 or 8 months of bug fixes came out before JPS began to hit ST3 hard.
But the thing that really bothers me is all the people who try to guess at how many licenses JPS has sold for st2. In my opinion, all your math and estimation sucks. I personally install ST2 on anywhere from 6 to 10 separate machines, including a couple of virtual machines hosted on other machines that have st2 installed. So, trying to guess based off of package manager downloads is a fallacy. Also, to those who complain that he should hire people to help with the development/maintenance of ST, with what funds should he do so? Someone quoted a number of somewhere around $600k in licence revenue and said that he could hire several people at that rate. I donāt know how things are done where you come from, but where I live, programmers expect to get PAID. On top of that there is administrative overhead (legal contracts, NDAās, workers comp, federal tax laws) that come in when you move from being independently employed to being an employer. Additionally, to keep a staff employed, you need a steady revenue stream. If JPS spent the next 2 years after releasing st2 just doing st2 support and not working on st3, then he spends the next 2 years basically making nothing. Howās he supposed to pay his staff then?
As for the person that brought up open source and the ability to go in and fix issues themselvesā¦ When was the last time you fixed a bug in an open source project that you werenāt paid to maintain? Iāll tell you, mine was about 9 years ago when I submitted a fix to the broadcom network driver in Linux. Most of the time, Iām simply content to work around whatever issue Iām running up against and wait and see if it gets fixed. I usually submit a bug, but not always. In general, open or closed source, you are usually at the mercy of some other developers time/focus. If JPS feels that the best way to address the issues listed against st2 is to develop and fix those issues in st3, then thereās little that you or I could to do change his mind. For that matter, not having seen the code base or organizational structure, I wouldnāt feel qualified to tell him thatās the wrong move. The radio silence is a little disconcerting, but which would you rather do if you were JPS: do productive work; or put on your asbestos underwear and wade into a volatile thread on the forums where people question your work ethic, your competence, and/or the value of the product you create?
Sorry, I posted my opinion in the wrong thread, I fully support this editor and developers.
Iām not an usual visitor of the forums, and whenever I enter this looks like a mess haha (probably has some hidden logic)
Iām totally agree with wbond and iamntz.
ntenney has some good points too.
Donāt know, I bought even two licenses of this software, 1 for usage and the other sitting in my inbox just to support a really great product.
[quote=āntenneyā]I personally donāt completely understand all the angst in this forum. First of all, Iāve pretty much considered the dev builds to be the bug fix track for this product. If you look at the release notes for the dev builds, it shows that JPS has been at least attempting to answer user feedback. The last dev release was in late September, so somewhere around 7 or 8 months of bug fixes came out before JPS began to hit ST3 hard.
But the thing that really bothers me is all the people who try to guess at how many licenses JPS has sold for st2. In my opinion, all your math and estimation sucks. I personally install ST2 on anywhere from 6 to 10 separate machines, including a couple of virtual machines hosted on other machines that have st2 installed. So, trying to guess based off of package manager downloads is a fallacy. Also, to those who complain that he should hire people to help with the development/maintenance of ST, with what funds should he do so? Someone quoted a number of somewhere around $600k in licence revenue and said that he could hire several people at that rate. I donāt know how things are done where you come from, but where I live, programmers expect to get PAID. On top of that there is administrative overhead (legal contracts, NDAās, workers comp, federal tax laws) that come in when you move from being independently employed to being an employer. Additionally, to keep a staff employed, you need a steady revenue stream. If JPS spent the next 2 years after releasing st2 just doing st2 support and not working on st3, then he spends the next 2 years basically making nothing. Howās he supposed to pay his staff then?
As for the person that brought up open source and the ability to go in and fix issues themselvesā¦ When was the last time you fixed a bug in an open source project that you werenāt paid to maintain? Iāll tell you, mine was about 9 years ago when I submitted a fix to the broadcom network driver in Linux. Most of the time, Iām simply content to work around whatever issue Iām running up against and wait and see if it gets fixed. I usually submit a bug, but not always. In general, open or closed source, you are usually at the mercy of some other developers time/focus. If JPS feels that the best way to address the issues listed against st2 is to develop and fix those issues in st3, then thereās little that you or I could to do change his mind. For that matter, not having seen the code base or organizational structure, I wouldnāt feel qualified to tell him thatās the wrong move. The radio silence is a little disconcerting, but which would you rather do if you were JPS: do productive work; or put on your asbestos underwear and wade into a volatile thread on the forums where people question your work ethic, your competence, and/or the value of the product you create?[/quote]
You can get someone to intern for you quite easily so you can get some help with some tasks such as: answering emails, issue triage and so on. You donāt necessarily have to hire 5 programmers for 100000 USD / year working full time. You can bring in some CS students to work part time.
Also, I fixed a bug in an open source project just yesterday, so you can stop thinking that youāre the same as everybody else.
I really couldnāt care less about the rest. Iāve bought ST2 last year and got no updates other than 1 or 2 BETA builds and 2 stable versions. None of those updates fixed any of the issues Iāve ran into. It doesnāt matter for how long itās been updated until that point if the bugs Iāve ran into are still there one year after Iāve bought ST2.
I really donāt care about anything at all as long as he CANāT SPEND 2-5 HOURS PER MONTH TO MAINTAIN A STABLE PIECE OF SOFTWARE. I do understand what youāve said about him not earning enough money out of this and having to release ST3, but building ST3 doesnāt mean he has to force people to give up on ST2 with this scheme! He can do both things - maintain ST2 and build ST3.
Nobody seemed to notice that my anger was actually directed at people who were telling me what to expect in exchange for my money or what to do, thatās what bothers me. Iāve paid a lot of money for a lot of software and most of the time I received support when I had a real issue. You can bet I wonāt accept being told that itās acceptable to not get any updates becauseā¦the first beta for ST2 was released 2.5 years ago or something like that; I will also not accept being told to use ST3 beta - because it CAN BE USED ONLY UNTIL ST3 IS OUT, IT BREAKS MY PLUGINS AND IS EXTREMELY UNSTABLE NOW.
Iām well aware about the part which concerns the money. Iāve tried to get in touch with jps, but Iāve received no reply for more than a month. You can bet I wonāt back down and that Iām still waiting for an answer from him.
A reply from jps saying āsorry, I canāt do anything, not even answer your emailā wouldāve been greatly appreciated. As for the work ethic, thereās nothing left to doubt now. He only answers where itās convenient and he rarely does that.
As for the community, Iāve seen how things are - most people fail to see that even if everyone pays for ST3, the whole story of ST2 will repeat itself.
I canāt pay more money while knowing āupdates / maintenanceā == ānew major versions in exchange of $$$ with added features and old unfixed bugs.ā
Cāmon guys, things are a bit heated up around here, so try to not make dismissive remarks If thereās nothing constructive to say, itās better to move on.